The Secret to Recovery from Bingeing with Guest Sam

The secret to recover from binge eating is not through more restriction. David’s guest, Sam, talks openly about her journey with binge eating. Her challenges are personal and systemic. Sam shares her secrets in the hope her message with reach others and create more understanding about this eating disorder.

Highlights:

• What is binge eating?
• Challenges and stereotypes
• Fatphobia and Health At Every Size
• COVID pandemic impacts
• Recovery process

Episode Show Notes*: 

*not a transcript

Warning: this episode contains conversations about binge eating disorder.

[01:55] What is Binge Eating, BED?

Binge eating is a type of eating disorder, BED for short. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) defines BED as:

1.      Recurrent episodes of binge eating.

2.      Binge-eating episodes are associated with three (or more) of the following:

a.       Eating much more rapidly than normal

b.      Eating until feeling uncomfortably full

c.       Eating large amounts of food when not feeling physically hungry

d.      Eating alone because of being embarrassed by how much one is eating

e.       Feeling disgusted with oneself, depressed, or very guilty after overeating

3.      Marked distress regarding binge eating is present.

4.      The binge eating occurs within certain frequency and duration measurements (more explained here.)

5.      The binge eating is not associated with the regular use of inappropriate compensatory behavior (e.g., purging).

This is just an overview. To read more about BED, eating disorders, and treatment, please visit NEDA or any evidence-based eating disorder organization website.

[04:22] Meet Sam

David: Can you tell me more about your background?

Sam: I began recovery two years ago. I discharged from a treatment program. My recovery is an important part of my life to focus on. I’ve learned so much about myself, beyond food.

David: We started working together before and after, right? What made you go into treatment center?

Sam: It was my mindset. My mom handed me the phone and asked me to be honest with the questions.

David: Tell me more about mindset.

Sam: I was trying different medications, which I was not good at taking. I was doing poorly in school and I was depressed. It was a week before the COVID shut down I started treatment.

David: How long was your treatment?

Sam: I was in 9 weeks total, PHP [partial hospitalization] and IOP [Intensive outpatient program] in different phases. June 17^th is my anniversary for finishing treatment.

David: Happy Anniversary!

Sam: Oh yea, I celebrated. When I did treatment, I went to Stone Mountain. I couldn’t even make it to the top. I was so defeated. When I finished treatment, I went back with my parents and we went up for the sunrise and it was really cool. I definitely do celebrate.

David: That’s really good. Talk to talk to us about what was going on with your eating and your behavior. What exactly was happening? Was it just the year before treatment or was it something that was going on for a while?

Sam: Yeah, I really had this developing for a long time and just honestly, it was worsening the older I got, because the more freedom I got, it was also more opportunity to binge. My disordered eating habits started in middle school around the time when I stopped eating in front of people entirely. It was my biggest fear.

I was not hungry in the morning. I was groggy. I can’t eat. Then I would go to school and I could not eat in front of people at all. “Who eats? Not me, that’s wacky.”  But then I would get home from school and I was starving. Because I am a child going through puberty who didn’t eat all day. So, I get home and I would just eat whatever I could find. Also, I felt a lot of shame about having to eat in such a weird pattern. I started lying about it too. I’d be like, “oh, I’m having a snack. And then I would like hide how much of said snack I had because I was so hungry and I didn’t want anyone to know that I was not eating lunch. My parents were putting money in my lunch account and I didn’t use it, you know? I never explained why are my brothers running out of lunch money. And I’m not.

David: Did you bank it?

Sam: I didn’t even get to use it. Over the years, it was up and down.

David: Up and down? With what? Your weight?

Sam: With intensity of the behaviors. I would eat in like math class at times where it was kind of quirky, kind of different. I thought, I’m different, I’m eating beans and math, but not at lunch. It didn’t make sense.

David: Can you talk about some of the things that you did, what kind of things were you doing?

[11:39] A Look at Sam’s Binge Eating Behaviors

Sam: Once I got the freedom to go to a convenience store by myself with some babysitting money, a little bit in chore money, once I had money, it was spent on food. I would go to the convenience store, the one place I can go by myself and just buy as much food I could. I would stuff it in my backpack. I wouldn’t eat it in public. I would take it home into my room to eat. I’m still starving from not eating all day. And then also it was like a comforting, sensory experience. Because I had built up so much anxiety socially, that when I was finally alone, I can decompress.

I can eat. I can feel normal, you know, and not feel so overwhelmed all the time. Like a security blanket in a way. I would hide the wrappers in my room. When I went away to college in 2017, my parents moved out of my childhood home and while I was gone, my mom called me and she said, we found some wrappers in your room. What are these from? And I said, I don’t even know. I don’t know. I just toss them out.

David: Oh, so you didn’t tell her at that time, so nobody knew what was going on.

Sam: No. And, I think that getting in the habit of relying on convenience stores with minimal funds to get products like hyper-palatable foods, you know, that became part of it too. And it was a financial thing, but once I graduated high school and the more freedom I got, the easier it was to hide it and, you know, my resources increased.

So, I would go to the community store on my campus that was conveniently right outside my dorm at night. And even when I moved back home after my first year of college, Uber Eats was very popular and becoming way too convenient again for me.

It was to the point where I felt like I couldn’t even go to work or start my day without bingeing on McDonald’s or something like that. It felt like the only way I could cope.

David: So once you got to college, the bingeing behaviors wouldn’t just happen at night, or at home alone, it would happen in the morning as well. You couldn’t start your day. Is that what you’re saying?

Sam: Yeah. It was like, I knew I had to leave the house that day with social anxiety. So, I’ll cope with food by eating before I go. Or if I’m alone and I’m not wanting to be alone with my thoughts, I will also eat an excess because then it’s like the sensory thing. I’m distracting my brain. I’m watching TV. I’m not paying attention to how much I’m eating. Anything to get out of my skull.

[15:45] Why Binge Eating?

David: At what point did you discover, or did you know that, what you were doing with your eating was tied into the anxiety or the social stress or your circumstances in the day?

Sam: I would probably say, it was when we started talking about how important three meals a day are and how different you feel when you’re eating three meals a day and not sporadically. And how hyper palatable foods do have different impact on like your brain, body, all that stuff. Once I started noticing the pattern, like the time of day that I was doing it, or what was happening in my environment as well as my head, because my head is pretty consistently anxious, I started identifying like slowly my triggers, which were like, oh gosh, I have to leave the house today I’m going to be working. It’s going to be unhappy. Maybe I can just like numb out for a bit. I think it was just a process of breaking it down if that makes sense.

David: Yeah. Okay. You mentioned a little while ago about hyper-palatable foods. I think it’s important to let people know what you mean by that, because I know what you mean.

Sam: Yes. Maybe you can describe it better than me.

David: I think that’s fair. Hyper-palatable foods are essentially foods that have high content of sugar, fat, and salt. They are called undesirable words in societal standards. And I’m not going to tell people what that means, because I don’t like labeling foods as bad or good or this or that. Hyper-palatable means that foods have a very strong flavor in your mouth.

What’s really important about this too, is to describe the actual process of bingeing. Bingeing is actually a behavior, you know, you’re tying it into your anxiety. And like you said, a little while ago, it, it was your security blanket. And so, it was your way of coping with what was going on in your life. Nobody probably noticed that early on. And so that was a big challenge. That is a very, very big part of why.

Those foods are important because they help numb some of those feelings to some extent or help you escape or helps you feel something a little bit differently. And the problem is, number one, you have to eat more in order to get the same feeling that you got when you first started eating those things.

And then number two, it becomes so habitual at the same time, which is why people think these foods are addictive and what’s really addictive is the behavior not the food. Right. So, I think it’s important to understand that you were only using the tools that you had available to be able to deal with the challenges that you were dealing with.

And so, I use this long explanation to talk about hyper-palatable.

I also love that you were talking about noticing how there was an increased level of shame you’ve noticed within yourself and your eating patterns. And so, it caused you to lie even further. And I love that story about you in college and your mom later on finding wrappers and stuff.

Sam: Oh yeah. Like I like to laugh about it now.

David: Right. That’s what I was going to say. I know it’s funny now, but it is, it’s a very difficult situation. It’s very hard to get around because we had some pretty big challenges. There were times where you were in tears and this was not something that was easy. It was very challenging. Very difficult. Would you mind if I let people know a couple of the experiences? Is that all right?

Sam: Yeah. Okay. Absolutely.

[20:43] Nourishment is a Way Out

David: I remember one time you were trying to get to those three meals. I was saying to you, it doesn’t matter if you have those hyper-palatable foods. What’s important is to be able to get yourself something to eat. Otherwise, that starvation that you were talking about a little while ago, that not eating throughout the day, is going to make things worse later on in the evening or the next day or later on in the week. Your anxieties are going to get worse. And I remember you were going somewhere with your dad, and I think you got into a car accident or something. And boy, that really threw you for a loop. And I think for the next couple of days, or so, you were eating, you were bingeing and the whole time we were like, it’s okay, let this happen.

It’s okay. Don’t worry about it. We’re going to work through this. This is challenging, but I think another thing that was also happening that you didn’t describe, you were in a large body. The stigma behind all of that, “I’ve got to lose weight. I got to look a certain way.” Wasn’t that also a big factor?

Sam: Yeah. It definitely was a huge part of the challenge and a big motivation at the time. It’s really, really tough thing in eating disorder recovery and treatment. Because eating disorders are pretty competitive in nature–

David: What do you mean by competitive?

Sam: Competitive in that…I don’t want to say in everyone, you know, because everyone’s experiences unique, but, in my personal experience with it, many don’t want to be challenged.

It’s like, there’s the eating disorder mind and then there’s our authentic self. When you see someone else at treatment. You say, “oh, I’m not sick enough.” Or “I don’t look sick, so I’m fine.” Even though I’m lying about what I’m doing.  It felt like to me, there was no space in the recovery community for me.

[23:53] Stereotypes and Barriers to Treating Eating Disorders

David: Yeah. Sure. Because we have this idea of a thin white emaciated woman, that young woman, that should be in treatment. I remember you telling me about some of the challenges about being in treatment. You’re not the majority in the program and that makes treatment a little bit harder too, because the expectation is, well, you’re supposed to eat less, but wait a minute, these girls were talking about two sides of our mouths here, right?

Sam: Yeah, exactly. It was tough. We would sit down, did meals together. We would plate our meals, we would have our meal plans to go by, they would make sure we had all of our things, and they, the clinicians, would sit with us while we all eat together.

They talked to us, do the meal check in and do all those things. But by the end of the meal, it was a weird feeling because I did not struggle to finish my meal, except when I felt nervous.

David: That does make sense, but explain a little bit further.

Sam: At my treatment center, other clients there had like anorexia, bulimia, ARFID, or other diagnoses. Not just bingeing, binge eating disorder. So, everyone had their unique treatment approach to them. And a lot of people there struggled to finish their meal because their behavior was not the same as mine. It was restriction. It was more challenging. But for me, because I didn’t necessarily struggle with eating in general as much as doing it.

David: In fairness to you, I think one of the challenges with being in a group of mixed conditions, you are somewhat being spoken to out of two sides of someone’s mouth, because on one hand, they’re trying to get everybody to eat more, but you’re in there because you’re eating more. That’s a disconnect there to some level, to some degree, and you’re mixed in with a group of people that need to eat more. What is interesting about binge eating disorder is that the very same thing is occurring. Whether it’s people with anorexia or bulimia. That is the single greatest predictor or the single greatest reason why a person overeats is because they restrict.

So, the restriction is really the problem. And your reason for restriction is different from your lived experience but it’s also the same. It’s not always the direct approach with the nutrition, with eating.

Sam: Yeah. Okay. It’s important. I’ve learned in the last two years to acknowledge that a lot of eating, like the nature behind eating disorders, as I understand them, is individual. But it is a prevalent issue.

I had a hard time sitting at the table or being in the room together. We’re all supposed to be recovering together, but I feel like I’m their biggest fear just sitting across from them. But I’ve learned in my recovery that it’s not about me. Their issue is not about me. Systemic fatphobia, you know, it’s another thing. that was one of the tougher things to approach.

[29:27] Fatphobia and Health At Every Size

David: Well, I love that you opened that door. I’m going to go ahead and just slam it wide open.  I think it’s important to talk about that systemic fatphobia and weight stigmatization. I think you’re starting to see it there, but you also saw it before you went into treatment. The idea is you’ve got to look a certain way, the pressures to be what society thinks you’re supposed to look like. That’s all there. It comes from our parents. It comes from media. It comes from our friends, teachers, friends at school. So, you’re also talking about how there’s this anti-fat bias as well, even in treatment. And what also happens is, anti-fat bias at medical establishments, doctor’s offices, at hospitals.

At what point did you learn about Health At Every Size? Was it during treatment?

Sam: I remember, you introduced the idea to me, right? It was great. I love it. Do you want me to like explain it?

David: Yeah, please. Definitely. In your eyes. From your perspective.

Sam: Yeah. So, for me, as someone in a fat body, Health At Every Size is really a way to understand that you can’t see someone and know about their health. You can’t look at them and say, oh, that person in a fat body is unhealthy because…NOPE. Also, what is unhealthy? So, it’s really subjective. To me, Health At Every Size, for example, it’s a doctor’s office that approaches with health at every size. I’m welcome there because I’m not going to be seen for my body type, but for my lab results and the actual biological things happening, with my body rather than just how I look.

David: I’ve talked about the concept of fit and fat. I think that a lot of people don’t realize that just because a person looks a certain way, doesn’t infer that something medically physically, or even emotionally is going on with them, but our society has that standard. And the standard is that you’re not healthy unless you’re in a thin body. And I think that the pressures come from every direction and HAES, Health At Every Size is exactly what you said.

It removes that subjective idea of what a person’s lived experience is by the size or shape of their body and helps people come into an equal playing field. There are a lot of clients that come to me that are fat and they are healthy. Generally speaking, they have a generally healthy life. They move, they enjoy time with their family. They take vacations. They might have some joint pains or they might have some difficulties breathing, going up a hill or something.

I love what you said. Health is subjective. You could be healthy even though your cholesterol is up. So, health is also a state of mind as well. The saying, “if I feel young, I am young” or “I’m only as young as I feel.” When I’m working with people, one of the things that I’m telling them is we’re not really taking your physical weight off, we’re taking a lot of that emotional baggage and throwing it out the freaking window. I think that’s really important.

Sam: Oh yeah. Absolutely. To your point, my anxiety, was heavily impactful on how my body was like regulated, with my heart rate and everything. I even went to a cardiologist and he was like, you have inappropriate sinus tech, high heart rate, for no reason.

I went to a treatment to focus on anxiety and depression last year, just to focus on it. Now, my heart rate has never been better. My weight didn’t change. I haven’t even checked it in forever, but, you know, I don’t check it anymore cause I don’t need to.

David: I love that. You’re talking about the sympathetic and parasympathetic system. And so that anxiety is constantly working on your sympathetic system, whereas the parasympathetic and the sympathetic system are playing off each other. The parasympathetic is the break. That’s the depression. The sympathetic is the anxiety or the stress or the fight and fly. That’s really the intensity of energy.

[35:45] COVID Impacts for Sam

David: It reminds me of when you and I were working, we were trying to get you to move during the COVID lock down. You had this severe anxiety about going out, you remember that? Tell people what was going on?

Sam: Oh, yes. Pre COVID, I started online school in 2018 and I moved home to my parents’ house. I had a job that was in person, but my anxiety was high and I was not getting out enough, it got worse, it just escalated during the pandemic.

I wanted to go outside. I love being outside. But, my brain was like, no, you can’t do that. Why? You just can’t. You [David] would check in, did you walk outside? Maybe one or two days.

David: The isolation that COVID caused, made even worse, the anxiety around COVID. And you ended up getting COVID.

Sam: Yeah. I was in the hospital with COVID. That’s another thing when it comes to the medical weight stigma. After I came home from the hospital with it, comments were around, are you predisposed?  You know, your BMI and weight. But what about the fact that my dad was in the hospital right beforehand, and I was severely stressed out and my immune system was shot. I felt fine until I actually got a positive test. And that night my immune system was like, you know, we’re done. My weight didn’t change overnight, you know? I was stuck inside for so long, especially after I was on oxygen. When I tested positive for COVID in July of 2020, it was back when the tests were real backed up. So, you were not getting a result for like a week or two. It was pretty tough. I got like a rapid result that was negative. And I was like, okay, cool, good, nice. But my family got sick and so I was taking care of them from a distance, like from a stairwell apart, doing the drop-off. I also did a PCR test, the same day. And then it wasn’t until 13 days after I took that test, they called me to tell me I was positive from then. Wow. So almost two weeks later they were like, oh, you’re positive that night. I started getting body aches, it was like, like placebo thing. It was intense. And it was, but also over the past, like two weeks where I had felt fine thinking I’m good.

Then, my dad went into the ICU. My family was just a mess and it was very scary. It was like my immune system confirmed, stress levels were so high. It was maybe a few weeks or maybe a couple of months [to recover].

David: You started having conditions with rashes. You remember those?

Sam: Yeah. All my joints, the inflammation. Oh, it’s horrible. I have hypermobility in my joints anyway, since birth.

[39:54] Wanted – Clothing For Every Size

David: I want to get back to this systemic oppression and anti-fat bias. One of the things that I see quite a bit is clothing for people as well. What has been your experience around clothing for you? Because I know we’ve talked about that sometime.

Sam: Yes. Yeah, definitely. Oh man, it’s difficult to say the least. I shop in plus sizes In the past, in high school, I shopped in straight sizes, so I’ve seen both sides of it to an extent, Shopping for plus sizes, in my experience, most of the time, not to be rude, but a lot of them are very ugly. They’re not even on trend or they’re designed to not be inclusive with whatever’s happening in fashion. It’s making the point that fat bodies are not welcome in fashion. So, we’re gonna give you whatever you can get.

David: It’s like someone didn’t get the fashion gig and got second dibs. Then that person’s like, I’ll screw it. I’m just going to make them whatever.

Sam: Yes. Actually, it’s become like an online meme in the fat community because it’s like, oh my gosh, what are these swimsuits? What are these? It’s goofy, but it’s also just like a huge message to be like, oh, you do not deserve. You’re not welcome in this trendy platform, you know? Then there’s also the fact that a lot of stores like have charged significantly more for a bigger size.

David: Oh, that’s another discrimination there too.

Sam: Yeah, then it’s like harder to even afford clothing.

David: You’re paying more for ugly or shit, garbage.

Sam: Super great. Yeah. Actually, last year I was contacted by Instagram or Facebook. The social media platform reached out to me about a shopping feature. It was something out of a movie, it try on the clothing on the app, like with your body, just stand in front of the camera and it would put the clothes that you’re looking at on your body.

David: Oh. Sort of like a VR or AR kind of thing,

Sam: But it would also take your measurements so you would order the right size. They wanted me to try it on my phone. I decided to do it because I’d love a voice in this department. So I tried out this prototype. My feedback afterwards was, this is a bad idea. Efficient shopping, but talk about triggering. Stigma. Discrimination.

David: Holy cow, man. Good Lord.

Sam: Yeah. I’ve seen a lot of brands and companies like trying to branch out a bit. A lot of it seems performative in some degree because they’re realizing how fatphobia is being called out more and more today. Like with Lizzo. Lizzo has made monumental impacts in the body neutrality movement. There’s a long way to go with clothing.

David: Yeah, there is, there are a few clothing online retailers that I’ve recommended to clients, and I’ll try to put those in the show notes as well, so people can have them. There are starting to be a few, but it’s still a long way to go.

David: I think it’s really important to say something here in all of this. I think one of the problems with this anti-fat bias is that society says because you’re not in a thin body, you don’t look beautiful. And so therefore the clothing is not going to be beautiful. And so, it’s an uphill battle for an individual whose fat because then they start seeing themselves as not beautiful. They are almost portraying the very thing people are saying. It’s not fair. They don’t have anything. And then you go shopping for something that doesn’t look flattering. And so now you don’t like yourself, so you’re not going to doll yourself up, or you’re not going to make your hair, or you’re not going to wear accessories and you’re not going to get the right shoes, on and so forth.

I remember the show What Not To Wear with Clinton Kelly and Stacy London. Anyway, they would usually get fat women before they dress them up, they just didn’t dress up because it’s hard, the amount of time it takes to find clothing.

I hear this from every woman, every size, even men. Oh my God, these clothes, it just doesn’t fit me. I can’t go there because they don’t have anything in my size. It doesn’t matter if it’s a person in zero or a person in 35. It doesn’t matter. They’re still gonna say the same thing. Oh, they don’t have the clothes that fit me. I’m too short. I’m too fat. I’m too wide. I’m too narrow. This. “I’m too that, I’m not this.”

Sam: Oh, definitely.

[47:51] Weight Stigma in Healthcare

David: There’s also more systemic oppression in the medical establishment. We were just talking a little bit about them as well with COVID and other things. But what other experiences have you had in the medical world?

Sam: I have one that I like to laugh about, simply because it’s so ridiculous that I’m like, this really is this a fever dream. With my first pap smear. I turned 21 and you got to do it. It’s a health thing. I want to care for my body, so I go for the checkup. When the doctor is doing it, this quick thing, there’s not much time to talk anyway, but, she goes, have you ever considered bariatric surgery? Friggin got the shit [speculum] up here.

David: Dang girl. Can we get to know each other a little bit first?

Sam: And she’s aware of my BED history? I didn’t bring it up. I actually had physical therapy later in the day. I thought, I’m going to look ridiculous in there because it looks like a gym. I don’t belong in there. Like, oh my God, I ended up that I have to have surgery in order to belong in there, you know? I was angry because I knew what she said was wrong. I was beating myself up for not saying something to her. I laugh about it now because it is like so ridiculous. But, it’s not a unique experience.

David: I really appreciate you for saying that and giving a voice for that. Wow. It takes a lot. I know that you’re pretty open about your lived experience. I really appreciate that, but it still takes a lot of energy, a lot of emotional energy. It’s probably happened to a lot of people. A woman client of mine who had to go in for a mammogram. She had very large breasts and she couldn’t fit into the machine, her breast and her body size made it very difficult because those machines weren’t made for her. She had techs and nurses grabbing her boobs, moving her ass, moving her around. And she’s like, holy shit, people. I mean, I’m a human being. I’m not a test subject. She was humiliated. She was in tears afterwards, it was just one of the worst experiences she had. It’s horrible.

Sam: It’s dehumanizing because suddenly, you’re just this mass and that’s what you’re approached like, we gotta get in the MRI machine, X Ray, whatever it is. You’re not the person who might be claustrophobic. Or might be scared, or just generally vulnerable in this moment.

David: What I think is really important is seeing implicit anti-fat bias that is occurring in a lot of different ways. It is in the clothing, how manufacturers design machines for only thin people, how even the bedside manner of a physician comes out with a cockamamie statement like that while she’s got her stuff inside your body, you know? It’s crazy. Like physical therapy, it’s like walking into a gym. You didn’t like going to the gym.

Sam: I’ve tried going to several different gyms, you know? The thing is like, I do like to move my body. There’s a stereotype with people in fat bodies that, oh, they don’t like to move. They don’t move, they don’t do anything. You know, they just eat all day. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. I actually love to move my body. My brain is what keeps me from doing it.

I struggle with it. The marketing of gyms. If you’re fat, you should be in a gym, but, if you’re in a gym and your fat, what are you doing here?

David: Yeah, That’s that shame motivation. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should work out. Then you get to the gym, how dare you be in here? You need to lose weight for us. Well, what the fuck should I do here?

Sam: Yeah, I can’t win. It’s awful. And that’s why I actually love Clarity Fitness.

David: I love talking about Abby and everybody at Clarity Fitness. You’re the one who turned me on to Clarity.  I remember I had Abby on my show. I was telling her, hey Abby, did you realize that I got connected to you because of a client of mine.

There are places that are starting to become more body positive, weight neutral, weight inclusive. At clarity fitness, they have a wall of smashed scales, cool. They’ve got great equipment, classes, online program, education sessions, yoga, treadmills, freeway, it’s packed with stuff. And the mirrors, they’re dimmed. So, you can see your form when you’re doing lifting weights without checking too much.

[55:38] BED Recovery is a Process

David: Can I ask, where are you now with your eating? I know we haven’t talked in a while.

Sam: It’s pretty good. I mean, I want to emphasize that, I’m not cured. There’s not a cure, you know.  I would not say that there’s a cure for an eating disorder. For me, I feel as though I have periods where I feel like I’m kind of in a remission. It’s like second nature. But there are times where I’m like, okay, I got to remember lunch today. I can’t forget dinner. Because the three meals a day thing is so important to me and my recovery. Other things, over here on my table, are reminders for a positive dining experience.

I got this when I was in treatment and I stuck stickers all over it. I don’t feel like I need to read it and use it, but I like have it because I liked the reminder.

David: What’s on there?

Sam: Plate the food, don’t eating straight out of a takeout box or packaging. It makes a difference.

David: Why does it make a difference?

Sam: For me in particular, plating the food kind of feels like an act of self-care because it shows myself that I’m important enough to have a plate that I deserve to like enjoy the moment and that it’s not just to be rushed through. I have to remind myself, I’m nourishing my body right now. This is important.

David: I love that. Some people will complain about eating too much at night. And I say to them, well, what are you doing while you’re eating? They say, oh, I’m usually reading, watching TV, or eating out of my bag, I ask, why don’t you just stop watching TV, and take that bag and sit down and really enjoy it. They realize they don’t like their bag of whatever. I’m like, whoa, that’s not what it’s about. What else do you have in there?

Sam: Oh, chaining. I pace myself because I will eat so fast. It’s unreal. Without chaining to start, I would just like scarf down a meal that’s in front of me and not even taste the food after afterwards. I’d be like, what did I just eat? Chaining helps me. I’m going to pick up the fork and I’m going to take a bite of this side first and then I’m going to chew it. And I’m going to think about it. I’m going to be aware of what I’m doing. I’m not going to think, this the right way. There’s no right way. It’s just being more like slowing down. Many of us have to slow down in our everyday lives normally just to take a breath.

David: Or feel your body, hear what your body is telling you, those nuances that are so important.

Sam: Yeah. Right. Or taste your food, you know, it’s like that. Chaining helps me be present. It also helps my anxiety to not run ahead of me. That actually reminds me of a point that I wanted to make about binge eating disorder and safe foods, because I feel like it’s misunderstood that only like eating disorders with a strong fear of food are the only ones with fear foods or unsafe foods.

When I was in treatment, everyone instructed me to identify your safe foods, identify your fear foods. I think I have too many safe foods. It wasn’t necessarily fearful. In my recovery, I had to make sure I did not let the foods that I often binge with become a fear of food because in my recovery, like, oh God, I have to avoid those at all costs. I don’t want to do that again. But it’s like, whoa, don’t flip. Don’t symptoms switch. You know? I learned how to make my comfort food safe. Does that make sense?

David: Yeah. What you’re also saying, is, how can I add it in without fear to eat it. Because if you start restricting yourself, then it will only exasperate the desire to have it again or more.

Sam: Right.

David: And that’s why I said early on that bingeing, just like almost every eating condition, there is a factor of starvation of restriction or avoiding food. And you can have a lot of reasons why we avoid food. It’s not because you’re scared of eating it, but you’re afraid of what it might mean if you eat it.

Sam: Yep. Okay, cool.

David: So, what’s your chaining after you eat?

Sam: Okay. Like clean up. That is something that’s actually one of the harder ones for me, because once I’m done with the meal, I’ll be like, I’m out of here. We’re done with this. We’re moving on. Well, I don’t even want to think about it anymore. Like, it’s over, don’t even remind me, but I also have dishes to wash or soak, or food I wasn’t like hungry for or full to scrape it off the plate. It is another way to slow me down and keep me in a radical acceptance of the whole process. Does that make sense?

David: Very nice. Yeah. And I want to say, you and I never did any of this, so I know that you got all of this from treatment, which is fantastic. One of the things that you’re saying with that is essentially you’re completing the experience, not negating it. If you leave the food and not clean the plate, it’s like there’s more to be done. You don’t have the full experience of eating this. And that’s really important. It sort of brings an end to the meal, so to speak in a peaceful way. I think that’s also very satisfying to be able to kind of clean things up and put them away, not in an OCD kind of way, but just again, to make you feel at ease and slow you down, like you were saying.

Sam: Definitely. Absolutely.

David: All right. Well, we need to come to the end of this. Through all your experience and everything, what would you say is an important thing that you would want people to know? What’s one small takeaway or big?

Sam: I think I would want people to know that there is no face of an eating disorder. There’s no sick enough. There’s no face. There’s no, look to it. There’s also no linear path in recovery.

David: That’s so nice that you’re saying that because there are various criteria for diagnosing an eating disorder and there’s only a handful of eating disorders. I think there’s five and what’s interesting is people can present with a lot of different criteria. To pigeonhole someone into an eating disorder, especially because of the way they look or not realize that they might have an eating disorder because of the way they look.

Sam: Yes. I guess I think to your point, the last thing I would add is, I am in a fat body and I have a history of binge eating disorder, but there are plenty of people in fat bodies who have a history of anorexia.

David: Very good. Yeah. Good. And I would also, and I will also say that I have a lot of clients who are in a thin body who have experiences with binge-eating or have binge eating disorder.

Sam: Yeah. Right.

[01:04:33] In Closing: Love

David: Is there anything else that you want to leave everybody with?

Sam: I think, it’s unrelated, but I just wish that everybody would know how loved they are. Whether or not I know them or not, they are extremely loved and important people.

David: That’s nice. That’s beautiful. I think simply the truth. That’s so good. I don’t want to put anything else to the end of that because I think that that’s cool.

Sam, I appreciate you taking the time.

David: This was a lot of fun. I can’t wait to do this again. And just, if you don’t mind, do you want to let people know where they can connect with you? Do you want them to do that or not?

Sam: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. I love posting on Instagram in particular, resources and informative things. I can be found @samm_cann

David: Thank you, Sam. I really appreciate it. You are phenomenal and yes, you are loved. I love you very much.

Sam: I love you, David.

Closing Note:

Big shout out to Sam. Thank you so much for your time for being so gracious and just your vulnerability in helping people.

Resources:

Sam’s feature in The Champion newspaper 

Clothing Brands: 

• Old Navy was recommended in the audio podcast. However, it is unfortunate that the brand is scaling back their plus size collection.
• Dia & Co
• Torrid
• Target
• Snag Tights
• Jibri
• Avenue Plus
• Modcloth
• Woman Within
• Glitzy Girlz Boutique
• Lane Bryant

Thank you to Bri Campos, whose Instagram posts helped for this list for clothing brands.

Get Your Copy of the book – One Small Bite: Anti-Diet Stories that Empower You To Build a Positive and Secure Relationship with Food

Get Unstuck Group Class – Classes are on Zoom, so no travel necessary. Read about it here: https://orozconutrition.com/courses/

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Chop the diet mentality; Fuel Your Body; and Nourish Your Soul!